I'm so here for it re: fertility awareness. We're Marquette people ourselves, but I am so grateful for the plethora of options when it comes to methods. This interview was beautiful -- Thank you, Caitlin, for the good work you do ❤️
Jan 29·edited Jan 29Liked by Caitlin Estes, Sara Dietz
Loved this! Also, can we have like a "protestants for NFP" club somewhere? I really appreciate the nuance around valuing life and not separating sex from its procreative capacity, but also exercising prudence and self control in discernment. This has been a pretty consistent topic of conversation around here lately. Also, from a super practical perspective, "charting for information" has been incredibly helpful in navigating chronic illness, which for most women has an intricate interplay with hormone shifts and fluctuations.
The national coordinator for The Cycle Show (who is also a fertility awareness practitioner) is Protestant! I met her a few weeks ago and was surprised (but excited!) to hear that
Jan 29·edited Jan 29Liked by Sara Dietz, Caitlin Estes
I think it was Matthew Lee Anderson (Caitlin knows who this is, at least lol) who once said in an interview that like 30-40% of men in evangelical churches —in their midlife with a few kids— have a vasectomy. (To be honest I would have to go back and see where the stat was coming from.) That's not even considering the women who have similarly gone the route of sterilization. I believe that kind of run-of-the-mill Christian acceptance of it as a way to "be done" does a disservice to cultivating a relationship of prudence, attentiveness, communication, and discernment. Like, you would never have to talk about that huge part of your married life EVER AGAIN?
It's my personal soapbox, next to hormonal contraceptives.
WHOA. hahaha I definitely thought more men did this.
Anecdotally, it seems everywhere I turn there's a Christian couple who have had a few kids, and mention something about them being done (and mention something about the husband getting fixed.) This stat now has me all WHAT IN THE WORLD.
I wish I could tag MLA because I would love his take on why this is!!
Also, the CDC report was from 2017-2019, so it’s possible it’s increased significantly in the last 5-8 years! I agree with you - I hear it a lot in Christian circles.
Something I'm realizing is how much purity culture is actually just the flip side of the over-sexed culture. So rather than acknowledge that chastity, self control and prudence are just virtues that EVERYONE needs in order to steward their sexuality, we have this false binary of "married people get to have sex whenever without consequence" which is just not true. Or the quiverfull "never say no" which has all sorts of problems too. It just gets really weird. Really fast. Like, why is the explicit evangelical teaching that you're responsible for your husband's fidelity and never saying "no" is a cure for pornography addiction? (clearly, I have a soapbox here too😂)
Jan 29·edited Jan 29Liked by Sara Dietz, Caitlin Estes
Yep yep yep.
Chastity, self-control, and prudence are necessary before and after marriage. But I only hear Catholics talking about that. haha
One thing I've tried to do in the past is view all the "have as much sex as possible with your husband!" (or really any other sexual) advice from Protestants through this lense of contraception. Is it mentioned? Or is the assumption that it's a free for all with no restraint needed, no attentiveness to the woman's cycle? Just on demand sex always? (And this isn't even about the weird "women don't like sex" trope lol)
Yessss, Haley! I'm giddy to share: these are exactly the topics discussed on @Fertile Faith! I'm hoping to continue these conversations by creating safe places for Christian women to consider these topics from a new angle for the first time.
Catilin, have you ever come across Bridget Busacker's work? I listened through all her episodes of Managing Your Fertility a while back, and I think y'all would make excellent guests on each other's podcasts! She too discusses not only the science, biology, and medical side but goes deep into other aspects it touches including marriage, relationships, virtue, etc.
Yessss. Charting for health. It should be for alllll the women, single or married. The most recent example: I was verbally processing to my husband about the weird thing that happened in my last 3 cycles, and I was like YOU KNOW WHAT, IT WAS THE NEW MEDICATION I STARTED AROUND THEN. And then the correlation was obvious. Honestly all women need to know their body isn't meant to be a complete mystery, a freaky free-for-all. It can be studied for our benefit.
Yep! Also, I find it enormously helpful to be aware of when I'm likely to be more short tempered with my kids. I can be a bit more mindful of it, plus more compassionate when I'm not at my parenting best because I'm fighting uphill and progesterone is in the toilet when nursing all night 😂😜
Keeper of the chart over here. I'd say that taking ownership of charting made life easier for both of us. Knowledge is power! Fertility awareness as a team effort is spot on.
I basically ignored my body until I was like 30. Lived in my head totally; didn’t know what I didn’t know! (And it’s amazing how much we aren’t taught💔) Motherhood taught me practically how incredible my female body is and becoming Catholic took it to another level🙏🏼
Have you heard of The Cycle Show? It’s a workshop to teach young women about their bodies’ incredible creative capacity (focused on the menstrual cycle, obviously). I’m becoming certified as an instructor this spring because at this point I couldn’t be more passionate about shifting this culturally for future generations✨
I love this! My mom charted, and I'm so thankful for that as I began charting myself in college. I quickly discovered that my body is not as much of a mystery that I'd always thought. I learned so much about my body over the years that I recognize the signs without tracking anything, and it's such a beautiful way to live, being so in touch. I still have my thermometer in a drawer if I reach a point in my marriage where I'd like to more careful about conception, and just knowing I have the power of knowledge from my body is wonderful.
Yes would love to tell you all about it❤️ Instead of leaving a big old comment here, I’ll plan to write or podcast about it soon. I’d direct you to a link but its online presence isn’t that robust
I'm so here for it re: fertility awareness. We're Marquette people ourselves, but I am so grateful for the plethora of options when it comes to methods. This interview was beautiful -- Thank you, Caitlin, for the good work you do ❤️
Thank you, Meredith!
Loved this! Also, can we have like a "protestants for NFP" club somewhere? I really appreciate the nuance around valuing life and not separating sex from its procreative capacity, but also exercising prudence and self control in discernment. This has been a pretty consistent topic of conversation around here lately. Also, from a super practical perspective, "charting for information" has been incredibly helpful in navigating chronic illness, which for most women has an intricate interplay with hormone shifts and fluctuations.
Almost like marriage is sanctifying if we let it be 😂🤯 so many built-in chances to practice virtue and interpersonal relationship skills
I love this Protestants for NFP idea! But, even more: how about Christians for NFP! We're stronger when we're all together :)
Definitely! I think my main point was just that NFP is not *only* for Catholics :)
Absolutely!!!!
The national coordinator for The Cycle Show (who is also a fertility awareness practitioner) is Protestant! I met her a few weeks ago and was surprised (but excited!) to hear that
I'm not familiar with The Cycle Show!
I think it was Matthew Lee Anderson (Caitlin knows who this is, at least lol) who once said in an interview that like 30-40% of men in evangelical churches —in their midlife with a few kids— have a vasectomy. (To be honest I would have to go back and see where the stat was coming from.) That's not even considering the women who have similarly gone the route of sterilization. I believe that kind of run-of-the-mill Christian acceptance of it as a way to "be done" does a disservice to cultivating a relationship of prudence, attentiveness, communication, and discernment. Like, you would never have to talk about that huge part of your married life EVER AGAIN?
It's my personal soapbox, next to hormonal contraceptives.
That’s a wild statistic! But I’m totally with you--foregoing the necessity to touch base regularly seems like such a missed opportunity 😢
CDC says 18% of women receive permanent sterilization https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db388-H.pdf
and 5% men receive vasectomies. SO -- if 30-40% of evangelical men receive them... that's a huge percentage of that 5%! Very interesting!
WHOA. hahaha I definitely thought more men did this.
Anecdotally, it seems everywhere I turn there's a Christian couple who have had a few kids, and mention something about them being done (and mention something about the husband getting fixed.) This stat now has me all WHAT IN THE WORLD.
I wish I could tag MLA because I would love his take on why this is!!
Maybe we can tag him in a Note? I’m all for it.
Also, the CDC report was from 2017-2019, so it’s possible it’s increased significantly in the last 5-8 years! I agree with you - I hear it a lot in Christian circles.
There's definitely a way to share post comments into Notes--it may only be on the mobile app, I can't remember.
Something I'm realizing is how much purity culture is actually just the flip side of the over-sexed culture. So rather than acknowledge that chastity, self control and prudence are just virtues that EVERYONE needs in order to steward their sexuality, we have this false binary of "married people get to have sex whenever without consequence" which is just not true. Or the quiverfull "never say no" which has all sorts of problems too. It just gets really weird. Really fast. Like, why is the explicit evangelical teaching that you're responsible for your husband's fidelity and never saying "no" is a cure for pornography addiction? (clearly, I have a soapbox here too😂)
Yep yep yep.
Chastity, self-control, and prudence are necessary before and after marriage. But I only hear Catholics talking about that. haha
One thing I've tried to do in the past is view all the "have as much sex as possible with your husband!" (or really any other sexual) advice from Protestants through this lense of contraception. Is it mentioned? Or is the assumption that it's a free for all with no restraint needed, no attentiveness to the woman's cycle? Just on demand sex always? (And this isn't even about the weird "women don't like sex" trope lol)
Yessss, Haley! I'm giddy to share: these are exactly the topics discussed on @Fertile Faith! I'm hoping to continue these conversations by creating safe places for Christian women to consider these topics from a new angle for the first time.
Catilin, have you ever come across Bridget Busacker's work? I listened through all her episodes of Managing Your Fertility a while back, and I think y'all would make excellent guests on each other's podcasts! She too discusses not only the science, biology, and medical side but goes deep into other aspects it touches including marriage, relationships, virtue, etc.
Yes! I’ve seen her stuff as we sometimes run in similar circles. I’d love to have her on the show — and be on hers! :)
Yessss. Charting for health. It should be for alllll the women, single or married. The most recent example: I was verbally processing to my husband about the weird thing that happened in my last 3 cycles, and I was like YOU KNOW WHAT, IT WAS THE NEW MEDICATION I STARTED AROUND THEN. And then the correlation was obvious. Honestly all women need to know their body isn't meant to be a complete mystery, a freaky free-for-all. It can be studied for our benefit.
Yep! Also, I find it enormously helpful to be aware of when I'm likely to be more short tempered with my kids. I can be a bit more mindful of it, plus more compassionate when I'm not at my parenting best because I'm fighting uphill and progesterone is in the toilet when nursing all night 😂😜
Keeper of the chart over here. I'd say that taking ownership of charting made life easier for both of us. Knowledge is power! Fertility awareness as a team effort is spot on.
Love this, Walther! Team work really does make the dream work. :)
Loved this all soooo much!
I basically ignored my body until I was like 30. Lived in my head totally; didn’t know what I didn’t know! (And it’s amazing how much we aren’t taught💔) Motherhood taught me practically how incredible my female body is and becoming Catholic took it to another level🙏🏼
Have you heard of The Cycle Show? It’s a workshop to teach young women about their bodies’ incredible creative capacity (focused on the menstrual cycle, obviously). I’m becoming certified as an instructor this spring because at this point I couldn’t be more passionate about shifting this culturally for future generations✨
Eep Amber I would love to hear more about this! I haven’t heard of it!
Any solid resources for teens is needed!!
I love this! My mom charted, and I'm so thankful for that as I began charting myself in college. I quickly discovered that my body is not as much of a mystery that I'd always thought. I learned so much about my body over the years that I recognize the signs without tracking anything, and it's such a beautiful way to live, being so in touch. I still have my thermometer in a drawer if I reach a point in my marriage where I'd like to more careful about conception, and just knowing I have the power of knowledge from my body is wonderful.
Yes! The confidence is truly a game changer!
Yes would love to tell you all about it❤️ Instead of leaving a big old comment here, I’ll plan to write or podcast about it soon. I’d direct you to a link but its online presence isn’t that robust
Yay! I'm so excited to learn more, it sounds incredible.
Loved this!!